How an Agnostic Helps Me
Be a Better Minister

by | Jan 10, 2024

Laura Dennis and I first met in the blogging community.  Both of us are writers, her being a popular adoption, adoptee, and parenting writer, and me being a writer in several genres including Christian living as well as adoptee issues. Since we’ve been friends we have worked together on projects and been contributing writers to several books together and lots more.

Laura and I probably would have never been matched by others as, “Most Likely to Be Friends.” Thankfully we went ahead and matched ourselves. Although our lives couldn’t be more different in many ways – our friendship couldn’t be more perfect. (We both love guacamole. Need I say more?)

I’ve been a Christian pastor for over three decades and now serve as the Women’s Ministries Director for the Peninsular Florida District of the Assemblies of God. (Also referred to as PF Women.) I’m a conservative if you have to pin me down to a label. (Which I really dislike…the whole idea of labels. Or being pinned down, for that matter.) I would classify myself as more of an Independent or libertarian than anything although there are a few exceptions. As I said, it’s hard for me to fit anywhere because I don’t completely agree with any of the political parties.

Laura is an agnostic, an unbeliever, who would probably politically align mostly as liberal…and I don’t think she likes labels any more than I do.

Oh, and did I mention…we both grew up in Maryland? When we first met, Laura lived in Serbia, but now she lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

I live in America, in the Tampa Bay area, to be exact.

Though we are about 1,200 miles away from each other, we are in constant touch.

At any given moment I could probably tell you exactly where Laura is. Whether she’s taking her kids to school, or bringing them home…on her way to work or on the way home…spending a quiet evening with her husband, going to the market for food for dinner, or caring for a sick child.  Likewise, if someone asked her, Laura could probably let you know what I’m in the midst of, whether it be my work at the district office, a prayer meeting or a walk in my neighborhood. We mostly communicate online however we also schedule regular phone calls. (We even spoke regularly while she was in Serbia, through something called Magicjak which enabled us to have conversations without worrying about how long we talked.)

Laura is so brilliant. She was accepted to Stanford but turned down an education there in favor of pursuing a dance career. A talented dancer, she once directed at the Duke Ellington School of the Arts. Then she got injured. Now she has traded her dancing shoes and become a supermom as well as a marketing expert who has slayed it in the corporate world.

We have the best conversations. When I hear her voice on the phone it turns what may have been a mediocre day into something special.

At the heart of our friendship is a deep respect for the other, and this leads to listening with the intent to understand.  Neither of us is easy to offend, so our relationship is devoid of any eggshells to walk on, which is wonderful.  I’m never afraid to say anything and it’s the same for her. Neither of us got the memo on PC language. We can literally say ANYTHING. We are both unoffendable when it comes to the other. Our conversations are hilarious. At least, to us.

Here’s a key ingredient of my and Laura’s friendship: although we don’t share the same view at all on spiritual matters, we always support one another. For instance: Laura doesn’t believe in God or salvation. But, after services at our church – whether it be a Sunday, Wednesday or an event for PF women, she will ask me if anyone responded for salvation.  And if I say yes, she gets excited.  Why? Why does she get excited about something she doesn’t even believe in? Because she cares about me.  And she knows there’s nothing more important to me than people coming to Jesus.

At this point in our friendship, it’s not uncommon for Laura to ask me questions like:

“Do you think this is spiritual warfare you’re dealing with?”

Laura doesn’t believe in spiritual warfare. So why would she even use that terminology?

Because she knows I believe in it and talk about it a lot, and she meets me where I’m at.

That’s so much a part of what friendship is about – meeting the other person where they’re at.

I meet her where she’s at too, in various ways.  We have discussed our beliefs and feelings many times about spiritual things and the Bible. One night we had a several-hour conversation on the Supernatural Gifts of the Spirit. She heard me out totally on what I believe and then gave me what she believes is the explanation, for all of it. We both listened and learned a lot about where the other person is coming from and why we each hold the beliefs that we do.

I think it’s safe to say that she would tell you she never feels as if I am pressuring her or speaking in any condescending way.  Although I very much want Laura to know God and experience Him, she’s my friend, not my project. [By the way, I asked her to read this post before I published it, to be sure I was portraying our relationship accurately as far as she is concerned, as well as taking nothing out of context that we’ve talked about.]

There are so many things I could say right now, but have settled on just leaving it at this – I would absolutely take a bullet for Laura. No question. I would lay down my life for her if it came to it.

So, how does my friendship with this woman, who happens to be agnostic, help me be a better Christian, minister, and leader? 

She helps me get a better picture of what many people who don’t know God, really think and feel. 

I’m trying to reach people who don’t know God.

Laura knows that. (I don’t have a hidden agenda. )

And so I often ask her opinion about how I’m going about trying to reach people for God. I ask, “How do you think I could do this, and be more effective?” She’s happy to tell me what she thinks and give me fresh ideas to try to reach more people. I’m grateful for her input.


She tells me if I came and started a church near her, she’d totally come there…even though she doesn’t believe.

When I get really upset about something, I sometimes say, “Pray, Laura, pray!”I do this because prayer is always my first instinct. When I ask her to pray, she says “okay.” I know she’s not really going to pray. She just says “okay” to soothe me at the time. In reality, she’s going to send me “warm thoughts, “ and “lots of energy”. (Assuring me she will connect to something she calls the collective unconscious.) I don’t blast her with platitudes about prayer, in response, or remind her that I don’t believe in that. It simply wouldn’t be helpful, at all.

She’s a great strategist. 

I realize not every unbeliever has this gift. Nor does every believer, for that matter.

What I am saying is this…

Laura has leadership gifts (I believe they are God-given, although she would beg to differ that they originate otherwise) that are useful for the Kingdom of God even though she’s not in our ranks. And I gladly receive them.

I’m thankful for the agnostic that God sent into my life.

Laura doesn’t just help me be a better minister. She helps me be a better person.

Our relationship grew over the years and went from an exclusively online relationship to meeting up in person, both at her home and mine, as well as in other places.

I thank God for this blessing, while Laura probably thanks fate. I’ve never asked her who or what in the grand scheme of things she thanks for us coming together as friends…maybe that will be our next conversation.


  1. Martha Wiggs

    Such a great perspective. You rattled a few of my narrow views on reaching others for Christ. “Listening to understand ” really stands out. I love your posts. Thank you.

    • Dr. Deanna Shrodes

      Thank you! I am so delighted that you love my posts. And I am glad that your perspective has been challenged (hopefully gently?) and that you will be open to some new friendships. Much love!

  2. LaDonna

    I am really touched by this post. Laura sounds like a wonderful person! Beautifully shared post today.

    • Dr. Deanna Shrodes

      She IS such a wonderful person. Thank you for your kind thoughts as always. Love you!

  3. Nancy Tallagsen

    This is so wonderful!! Great post and I’m thankful for you. I do have people in my life who are not of the same beliefs as me and I don’t try to change them or “blast” them for any reason. It is so freeing to just accept people just the way they are…not having an agenda. This is a really powerful post because a lot of people need to know that it’s not our job to change people; Christians or unbelievers. It’s our job to love every person on the earth…some up close, some from afar. Blessings always!!

    • Dr. Deanna Shrodes

      You are so right, it’s not our job to change them…it’s simply our job to love them!

  4. Sue Visaggio

    Awesome………….God has given you such wisdom…………….God bless you……………Your example will win her……… you.

    • Dr. Deanna Shrodes

      Thank you friend. I appreciate you reading and commenting. Love you.

  5. Rachel Caruso

    Wow this blog is perfect! People don’t always understand why I love and even cherish friendships with so many different people from all different walks, backgrounds…and how it is so easy for me to look past our differences. You have written it so perfectly! Just another reason I love you and cherish your leadership so much!

    • Dr. Deanna Shrodes

      Thank you for your kind words as always, Rachel. I have had those who don’t understand as well, and you have to let it go. Move forward. I love you!

  6. Corie Skolnick

    I have sometimes wondered how you two navigate this fundamental difference and it’s so simple. You just so deeply love each other that belief systems are extraneous to that love. I adore you both.

    • Dr. Deanna Shrodes

      You are exactly right!! We adore you, too. xoxo

  7. Gayle Lechner

    Laura was the help provided when the need was so great. I believe that was God-inspired. I’m thankful for her deep friendship with you! Everyone needs a Laura in their lives. 🩷


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